I'd Like to know your thoughts on this.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081119/ap_on_go_co/congress_autos




I know what my initial feelings have been on this topic....What do you think??

One of my thoughts are...."employee pricing" special contributing to their demise....
Also all that "no interest" stuff they had going on in the past.
And there is so much more to consider.

post up peeps...lets hear those opinions!  

hmmmm
Maybe the UAW had something to contribute to the problem?
My understanding is they (UAW) members work for 30years at very inflated rates & incredible benefits then are able to retire with 80-90% of their salary, then can work another job with salary on top of that...if they are laid off they participate in the job bank which essentially pays them to play video games  or whatever....
They (GM & Chrysler)also were not selling the diesel vehicles that they sold in Europe for decades, at much better mileage BTW. So they have also contributed to our dependence on oil...I say let em fold.

The only way I could begin to feel different is if they did away with UAW and began selling the vehicles we actually need and want. But I don't see it happening....  

I agree withdoc franco. the unions have driven the prices upward...continually. cotributing fully to the cost of living,and then asking higher  wages to make up for the problems they caused.
2. the union stewards dictate how their worker bees are to vote, thats why so many state can be counted on to put up a voter "block". carrying the vote in the rust belt,and its a rust belt where unions have gone for a reason.
3. where do the union dues go? fatten the wallets of the stewards? who in turn fatten the wallets of their bosses, thing that make you go HMMMMM.  

I knew you would have some interesting points, And I do agree. Also, why is it the "big three" have not produced quality vehicles with MPG's you can get from the Japanese Auto Makers?
My thought is this.....If they, as large corporations cannot manage themselves or the unions they are partnered with, then they shouldn't be in business.

What happened with all those "record profits" they were makin' a few years back....does nobody store it away anymore for the "slow times" ??? I know as a business man, and I am sure you, Doc..Have to put your pennies away for those rainy days.
I just don't feel sorry for them or the unions they work with.  I think Henry is turnin' in his grave right about now!!  

I agree, get rid or reform the hell out of the unions.  The UAW is on of the top 3 reasons why those companies are in deep "S"  

I dont think we should bail them out. as much as it would suck for all those people its the only way for the economy to fix itself.  companies need to be rebuilt, held accountable, and constructed so crap like this doesnt happen.  they need to take a look at the competition thats not in trouble and figure out why.  
--------------------

02 TJ with lots of extra junk

"Respect my authority"  (cartman)

NaughtyDodge04:
I agree withdoc franco. the unions have driven the prices upward...continually. cotributing fully to the cost of living,and then asking higher  wages to make up for the problems they caused.
2. the union stewards dictate how their worker bees are to vote, thats why so many state can be counted on to put up a voter "block". carrying the vote in the rust belt,and its a rust belt where unions have gone for a reason.
3. where do the union dues go? fatten the wallets of the stewards? who in turn fatten the wallets of their bosses, thing that make you go HMMMMM.

You kinda struck a nerve here. As a union member and a guy who grew up in a family full of UAW members, let me say this: The "overinflated wages" you hear so much about are just that. Overinflated. If you spent one day in my plant doing my job for the 12hours I work in the unGoddly hot, stinking, filthy place, at the work pace we must maintain you would probably say I don't get enough.
My union does not dictate how I vote. I vote based on my beliefs and principles. If you must know, I almost always vote conservative, as do a lot of my fellow members.
My union dues are public information. You can look at the books anytime you want. The dues go to pay for sub pay benefits, support for out of work, members, and some local admin stuff. Yes, some money is also paid to lobbyists to try and keep jobs here and fight things like NAFTA.
Take a look at the gazzzilions of dollars paid to corp execs and the horrible mismanagement of money up top. Workers can only build the product the company designs.Saturn employees used to be able to stop the entire assembly line to fix a quality problem, When they became GM at Spring Hill that went away, so they could be "like the other GM plants". If it is an inferior product, who's fault is that?
There is all this talk that the unions have priced themselves out of  the market. Did you know the employees at Nissan, for example, make the same money and benefits as the GM(UAW) workers?
Yes, there are some real problems with GM and Chrysler but please don't blame it all on the workers just because they have a collective negotiating unit. The union is simply the "agent" negotiating the best deal they can get.
I can personally testify that we have given up wages and benefits over the last several contracts to keep our company in business. We not only haven't seen a wage increase but have actually lost money to comprimise with the company.
I am not trying to start a fight I just want you all to know, there are two sides to every story. I do, however, agree that the government has no business "bailing out" the auto industry or the anybody else.  

knew you would have some interesting points, And I do agree. Also, why is it the "big three" have not produced quality vehicles with MPG's you can get from the Japanese Auto Makers?
My thought is this.....If they, as large corporations cannot manage themselves or the unions they are partnered with, then they shouldn't be in business.

Id have to disagree w/you as far as quality and mileage go...I own a 2005 chevy malibu lt v6 w/over 60K on it and not one problem has gone wrong w/it and the best mileage I got was 30.6 on hwy driving and best of 26mpg in town. the worst was 21 in town but that was because of a heavy foot. so I think thats DAMN good for an american v6 and I sure the japp cars can get that too w/finesse driving.

I agree that we shouldnt bail them out and we shouldnt have bailed out the corporate bums the 700 billions either cause I know everybody will get stuck paying the bill on that one , one way or the other  
IT WASNT ME, IT WAS THE ONE ARMED MAN!

i don't think it's governments (taxpayers) responsibility to bail out corporations. they can do what the average joe does and file bankruptcy and structure it so they can slim down and reorganize.  
I work to support my Jeep

Point taken and well put. I just had experience from delivering parts ans picking up parts at some plants, the down time on the docks and hereing a ford union rep bragging on how the union there was goin to "bring em to their knees" and within weeks (3) it was a done deal. I can find the year in my records. I delivered to a postal warehouse in St Louis one year and read a notice on the bulletin board, stressing" how a loyal union employee should vote. I was shoo'ed away when i started asking questions.
So..
From a one sided biased view, i have seen what unions do. the rest... youve been kind enough to fill in, I respect you and your thoughts on this as an open dialog.
Peace and respect to you sir!  

Now, I do admit My union does encourage us to vote for whoever they endorse, Which is traditionally a Democrat. It has been that way for years but as I said I vote with my heart.
There are a certain "Union Thugs" out there who brag about strong-arming the company in the "old days". These types, though they bark the loudest, are actually the minority. The majority of our membership understands that we must be willing to find a common ground to keep our jobs. If the company can remain profitable and grow we will have a job with a fair wage.
I have heard the stories for years about finding beer bottles in the door, etc. These are examples of the OnePercenters. Most of us take a great deal of pride in building a high quality product.
Like I said I ain't trying to start a spittin match, it just hurts my pea pickin gizzards to know that People think of me like that. My wife says I'm a real a-hole but I do have feelins.
As I said, We should not be bailing out any-dang-body. If I screw up and make a bad investment, it's my dumb fault. I can't ask anybody for a hand up or a hand out.  

I really enjoy knowing that if this schit goes through on the bailout of the big 3 that theyll continue flying their personal jets to wherever they need to go!....NOT!
Yeah I want to pay for their jets as well as their big asss bonuses!....selfish basturds.  
IT WASNT ME, IT WAS THE ONE ARMED MAN!

i dont but getting paid 80 dollars an hour and like 40 when your not is killing the big 3 not to mention you get paid prob more than me when your retired wow.  unions were good when you had only one company in your city back in the old days, now if you dont like what your getting you can quit and go somewhere better.  this is why the jobs move across the water.  look at toyota and honda there guys get a pretty good wage for what they do. before i was for the bail out but know with these 3 ceos come to dc in 3 private jets wtf thats a slap in the face. the need to go bk 11 restructure kill the legacy and all other union ties build plants that dont cost a ton to retool pull there heads out of there a$$ design nice looking cars and thats it  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know I love you all (in a manly non sexual way) Spawn_X

i just read an article that said if gm (for example) were given their third of the money, they would only be able to operate for 5 months before they would need to go back to the public trough. they need to cut out alot of the fat at the top and streamline their operations.  
I work to support my Jeep

Well as a business owner of a small business, I cannot go ask uncle sam to bail me out. This whole thing pisses me off.....cause it all looks alot like "rich mans" justice??

And I would only need 1 Billion!!!  

you know, this will be like "you bailed the economy out how come you cant bail me(the auto industry) out".and then "you bailed the auto industry out out how come you cant bail me (put busness name here) out! itll go on and on and on... pathetic.  
IT WASNT ME, IT WAS THE ONE ARMED MAN!