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BigMo
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| Posts: 33
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 10/03/08 12:47 AM
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I am putting together a rig that is going to have 44" tires and it was suggested to me that I get 5.33 gears installed if I want to utilize the engine's power in the greatest way. I want to make sure that if I get down in a hole or some real soppy mud that I have enough power to the tires to spin them fast enough and with enough power to help me get out. Would 5.33 gears be good for 44" tires and a 393 stroker engine?
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SnoMan
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Posted: 10/03/08 08:30 AM
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It is hard to give you a proper answer without knowledge of vehicle type/size and tranny type.
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BigMo
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Posted: 10/04/08 02:56 PM
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Well all I know about the tranny is that it is a 4 speed and its on a '75 F-150 The engine is bored and stroked out to be a 393 stroker (Used to be a 351 Windsor).
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SnoMan
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Posted: 10/04/08 06:31 PM
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Assuming the axles have been upgrade to handle those tires I would say at least a 5.38. If you have not upgraded axle, you will start breaking stuff real quick when you regear.
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BigMo
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Posted: 10/06/08 03:00 AM
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Ok. Well I know the guy thats going to do the work on my axles says he is going to order up a beefer set of axles that have 35 splines and atleast some sort of 8 lug pattern, v.s. the 5 lug that's currently in there. As long as I can spin a set of 44" boggers fast enough in 4x4 to throw mud as far behind me as I can see, then I think I'll be happy.
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SnoMan
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Posted: 10/06/08 03:57 AM
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Sounds like you have 1/2 ton axles. 44 will not work long on them unless it is a parking lot queen. 44's are tuff on D60's and D70 axles used in 1 ton P/U's. At that tire size you are getting into Rockwell territory if you plan to play hard.
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BigMo
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| Posts: 33
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Posted: 10/07/08 11:11 PM
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Well the guy had suggested that he would put the biggest axle that he could fit in the tubes (35 spline 8 lug) and that he would weld a brace on the back of the tubes to help prevent them from twisting. I'm not sure if it will be tough enough but I am sure I could change over to Rokwells later if the set up breaks down all the time. The engine I am setting up will have a custom cam in it that will (amongst other things) relate to the gears I have. If I do need to switch over to Rokwells would I be able to put in the same gear ratio?
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SnoMan
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Posted: 10/08/08 04:12 AM
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Rockwell generally all have same ratio, 6.72 to one. This plays well with 44's and bigger tires. I would not run stock axles even with upgrades axles because they are very weak for this. If you are serious about this I would be looking for a D60 for front and a D70 in rear and some 5.57 gears. While 44's is pushing the envelope for even these axles they have a far better chance of surviving. Also it is not just axle shaft it is whole housing. You play too hard with stock axles and have a front wheel come off from housing or knuckle failure you could have a very bad day and even possibly flip truck destroy it.
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BigMo
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| Posts: 33
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 10/08/08 10:06 PM
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How easy would it be to install the D60 and D70 in my 75 F-150 and what lift kit would you reccomend? Would installing any of that require any welding or fabricating? I dont understand to well how the 5.57 gears would help spin my tires fast enough to get me through the mud. I always thought that the higher the # the more times your engine had to spin just to make your wheels spin once. Watching mud videos it seems like the guy who is spinning his tires faster tends to get out of the mud a little better. Maby I'm thinking about it backwards. I am deffanatly gonig to call up a salvage yard though and see if they have any D60's and D70's and price them out.
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SnoMan
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Posted: 10/09/08 04:26 AM
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Big tires make your effective gear ratio taller so a 5.57 is not deep at all with 44's and is about equal to a 31's with a 3.73. THis is the reason you use deep gears. As far as tire speed, this is more a function of tranny ratios and engine power than axle ratio unless you are one of those that believe tall axles and first gear is the way to run mud. Ideally you want to gear axles real deep and use a automatic and you can shift on fly for best tire speed or more wheel torque if it starts to bog. If you engine has enough nutz and you have deep enough axle gear you do not even need to use low range on Tcase which would give you even more tire speed potential. Once you have run some serious gears off road and see what they do for power and traction you will be a believer in them.
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BigMo
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Posted: 10/09/08 10:36 PM
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Ok it makes a whole lot of sense now. Thanks for the explination. I see what you mean by using an automatic transmission but do you think it would still be alright if I used whats in there, which is a 4 speed manual (I'm not sure what kind of tranny just that it has 4 gears). I'm kind of a manual lover but with the gears you recomended, now that I understand how it works I am deffanatly going to use that ratio. Makes sense. By the way the engine I am gonig to use is going to be a 393 stroker with AFR 185 heads, custom cam, roller rockers, duel plane air gap intake, and a Holly 4-brl. I sure hope it has enough nutz, lol. Any how what about the D60 and D70 axles? Would I be able to use a regular lift kit for a 75 F-150 and have it all bolt up fairly easly? Or any metal fab? I deffanatly appreciate the info, thanks.
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SnoMan
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Posted: 10/10/08 03:27 AM
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Your tranny should be a NP435 which is a sturdy tranny though they tend to have issues with shift rails after a lot of usage. If yours stills shifts fine and you are changing fluid in it at least once a year (or when water is in it) you should be okay. Bad thing about a 435 (and GM465) is that they are not quick shifters and forcing them to do so shortens their life so do not quick shift it. If you are serious about mud running though I would give a lot of thought to a automatic. The abilty to shift up and down under power is a big plus here. On axles and lifts, the difference is going to be in the Ubolts for axles and spring capacity. Capacity you can deal with and Ubolt are a deal killer but a spring shop can make you new ones of correct size cheap.
I might add 30 years ago (yeah I know it ages me) I used to play in mud that was not bottomless and a lot on muddy logging roads that were hilly and at times wet sticky clay. I had a 72 GMC 3/4 ton 4x4 with a pre smog 350 and a SM465 4 speed with and 4.10 gears with 16 inch split rims and 32 inch traction type non radial 10 ply tires. It pulled 2 gear high range on runs 90% of the time. (sometimes the heavy clay would need 1st to keep from bogging) The point is overall effective gear ratio. If I had had 3.73's it would not have pulled those runs in second high range and if I had had 4.56 in it with that tire size I would have been able to use 2nd gear even in clay because it was close to doing it with 4.10's. I never used low range unless I wanted to crawl slow and not play clutch. This works to with correct axle ratio for tire sizes. There was a time when when 4x4 truck always came with deeper axle ratio than 2wd models and it was not possible to get some of the tall ratios offered today.
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BigMo
New User
| Posts: 33
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 10/19/08 01:01 PM
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Nice truck. My buddy has an 87 GMC he's trying to build up. So far the only thing done to it was the 350 got rebuilt and a cam was put in. It takes some serious mud to get it stuck. I have learned a lot from his driving skills. So with the the gearing that your talking about it sounds like the way its going to be geared I am giong to have a lot more torque at the lower ranges but if I want the tires to spin fast then I would have to be in about 2nd gear or so. Which if I understand it right means that I dont necessarally need to worry about tire speed at the lower ranges I need to worry more about torque and how it gets applied to the tires so that I dont bog my motor down. The only question I have is that my friend has a 2003 F-350 with the 7.3, 38" tires, automatic tranny and 373 gears. Everything is stock accept for the lift kit and the tires. He hasnt gotten stuck yet and with an 8" lift and the 38's he has had that truck in mud up to the head lights and still got out. He also throws mud so far and so high that he could stomp on it, let off, and about 2-3 seconds later mud starts raining down from the sky. Maby its the fact that he has a diesle and its naturally more torquier but at the same time I am buildint the 393 stroker. Now, I have been told by a few people that when I build the engine (which is going to have a custom cam, 393 stroker kit forged and H-beam, AFR 185 heads, bored .030 over, duel plain air gap intake and a 4brl holley double pump I think its a 750 or an 850 cfm carb) it would produce about 500 ftlbs of torque and about 550 horse. With that being said do you think I should still stay with the gears you had mentioned earlier (5.57)? I guess if I hade more experience I would be able to understand better, however as time goes on that will be obtained more an more. Well I really do appreciate the advice, I am calling a place about getting some bigger axles and seeing what gears they offer. Thanks again.
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