I finally got around to installing my coilover shocks and Nth Degree Gyro-Joints and bushings. I set it up as a radius arm set up but I don't think I am compressing the bushings enough. Under moderate to hardbraking the front axle is rotating forward and causing a severe pull the left.

Here is how the bushings are being used:


Although not shown in the picture, I ended up compressing the bushings to about 1/2" each. I bottomed out the bolt. Tomorow i plan on using a shorter bolt to see if I can compress them even more. I would try to call Nth Degree but I have been told they have gone belly up.  
Lator....  

I cannot see the rest of the suspension but if the bolt head seen in right of picture near coil base is part of the system to controls axle twist, it is never going to work with rubber in there. The twist torque loads under braking are that radius point relative to axle center and tire diameter is going to see about 20 to 30,000 lbs of pressure on it and more during hard braking. You need to change the radius relative to axle where it connects to it so that you gain greater mechanical advantage over it and reduce stress on bushing. (could be why they went belly up)  

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You need to change the radius relative to axle where it connects to it so that you gain greater mechanical advantage over it and reduce stress on bushing.



I was with you until that part. I used to have a hiem at one end of that adjuster and a boulder bushing at the other. I was trying to free up some of the bind by putting in more things that give a little but I may have gone too far?
Lator.....  

i havnt heard they went belly up.  I was just at a OPen house for all j products and they had everything on display.

There stuff is nice but waaaaaay to much money  

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You need to change the radius relative to axle where it connects to it so that you gain greater mechanical advantage over it and reduce stress on bushing.

InstaGator:


I was with you until that part. I used to have a hiem at one end of that adjuster and a boulder bushing at the other. I was trying to free up some of the bind by putting in more things that give a little but I may have gone too far?
Lator.....

Post a picture of were the straps or links to control axle wheel torque attach to axle from front and rear so I can see more and I will explain further.  

Here is a link to local board with all the build up pics. Beware, it is not dial up friendly.

[url]http://www.orlandojeepchat.com/vB/showthread.php?p=27849#post27849[/url]

I have decided to take that bushing out and put in a hiem with a different bracket. But you can let me know if I am still going down the wrong trail. Thanks.
Lator....  

Okay, no problem as I have 5 Mbit broad band. Nice pics but it is easy to see why you are having problems. It is kinda doomed to fail with your setup. The problem is the location.connection of the torque control rod to axle housing. It attaches very close to relative center line of axle which means the wheel torque has a considerable mechanical advantage over it and about 2000 lbs of braking force places about 12 to 15,000 lbs of force on the bushing compressing it and allowing axle to rotate forward and make it turn left. You could remove bushing and replace them with slug aluminum ones but I and still concerned about stress on this link that could lead to failure with your large tire size. I and downloaded a few pics from site and I can edit/draw on them and tell/show you how to fix it for good and email them to you if you are interested. You appear to be good at fabbing so this will not be hard to do. Let me know.  

I'm always open to learning more. Send me your thoughts. mmarrero@cfl.rr.com Thanks in advance.
Lator.....  

I will edit/draw it up tomorrow and email it to you.  

The mod for it is in your email.  

Thanks Sno. I wish I had been able to look at that before I went over to my buddies to try a few things. We came up with the same solution after finding out that removing the front bushing and replacing the boulder bushing with a hiem. (Yeah, same results) What do you think the minimum hieght above the axle the top link should be? The reason is I don't want to have to move my track bar bracket unless I have to. Thanks again for the info. I have new pics up on the link from before as well as an explanation. I'll be posting the final results here.
Lator.....  

InstaGator:
Thanks Sno. I wish I had been able to look at that before I went over to my buddies to try a few things. We came up with the same solution after finding out that removing the front bushing and replacing the boulder bushing with a hiem. (Yeah, same results) What do you think the minimum hieght above the axle the top link should be? The reason is I don't want to have to move my track bar bracket unless I have to. Thanks again for the info. I have new pics up on the link from before as well as an explanation. I'll be posting the final results here.
Lator.....

On the best height this is a bit difficult to answer without seeing it first hand but what you need is based on tire size because the bigger the diameter of the tire, the more axle torque required to turn and and the more counter torque for the links to control. Given you problems and current design I would suggest the you measure distance from axle center line (not tube housing) to center line of strut bolt hole (it looks to be around 4 inches now) You can find center line measurement by measuring axle tube diameter, dividing it by two and then adding it to distance between axle tube face and strut bolt center. You want to at least double this distance based on tire size you have. (a bit more would not hurt) I might also add that I would used same bracket material but I think I would add a support gusset between the back of bracket and axle when I lengthened/redid bracket. Some might view this as over kill but myself I would "feel" a bit better about it if is was braced as such. "A chain is only as strong as the weakest link"  

Alright Sno, your being drafted into my resource team!    

We spent the day studying the set up. We realize we need to get some some seperation between the link brackets on the axle. I looked at your diagram quite a bit and I am hoping to fix this with minimul refabbing.

We came up with welding a piece of 2"x4" rectangle tube to the back of the strut bracket. We are going to weld it at an angle so that it will clear the track bar while going higher. I'm also going to lose the strut bushings in favor of another boulder bushing. So if you can understand what I am trying to explain, do you think it will work? I am pretty set on keeping the track bar the way it is to keep the bump steer at bay.
Lator.....  

InstaGator:
Alright Sno, your being drafted into my resource team!    

We spent the day studying the set up. We realize we need to get some some seperation between the link brackets on the axle. I looked at your diagram quite a bit and I am hoping to fix this with minimul refabbing.

We came up with welding a piece of 2"x4" rectangle tube to the back of the strut bracket. We are going to weld it at an angle so that it will clear the track bar while going higher. I'm also going to lose the strut bushings in favor of another boulder bushing. So if you can understand what I am trying to explain, do you think it will work? I am pretty set on keeping the track bar the way it is to keep the bump steer at bay.
Lator.....

I am not sure I can "see" what you are trying to do here. A diagram or drawing would help a lot. My suggestions on stut bars will control axle torque much better and would at most require fabbing two new brackets to weld to axle after old ones are cut off. I would also like to see a pic or diagram of your steering geometry. (I want to look at bump/deflection steering potential) I can "fix" this for good even remotely if I can see enough of it. I think your basic concept is a very good one, you just did not properly consider axle torque control/restraint with your current axle bracket design. There is a LOT of torque twist on the axle from braking and power with those big tires and you simply need to get more "leverage" over it to better control it with suspension design modifications. It is not a big problem to fix (though it may look like it right now) so do not make it into a bigger problem than it really is.  Be thankful that your basic design is sound and can be modified with a little work to cope with and cure problem.  

O.k. I have some questions before I break out the plasma cutter.

Your saying to raise the mount of the strut bar straight up. We looked at that today and think we may have to move the lower link downward. Right now the lower bracket is on the same plane as the axle center. The effect is like trying to keep links in a chain straight from the ends while not pulling it tight. What degree do you think I can get away with for the lower without going directly under axle center? How close to the axle housing can I get with the link center? I think I may have royaly screwed the pooch on this one.  
Lator.....